Thursday, March 18, 2010

Removal of videos - shorter version !

Why I chose to request the removal of the Everything is OK and Love police videos – Shorter Version. (see next post for longer version)

The reasons I requested this are numerous. Its difficult to know where to begin. I wont be revealing all the reasons. In fact , the primary reason was for the sake of my wife and children. This aspect is mainly private.

Background

I met Charlie ‘by chance’ in May 2009. WE hit it off and made some videos and I was not expecting the popularity they gained. At the beginning of most relationships, we are unable to see the others ‘dark side’ but that side comes up eventually. Since I made the videos, I became aware that Charlie is in a space where he is simply unable to hear criticism about himself or his ideas. I only recognise this in him because I k now it in myself. As far as I am concerned, he is a real liability towards himself and this youtube fame thing is taking him down the same route that the celebrities he criticizes are on. A route of self delusion, self importance, infallibility (even if he occasionally puts up videos saying ‘I make mistakes’) . And I choose not to work with or spend time with anyone who is unwilling and unable to take a really good look inside to see what is really going on. I feel what he did was impulsive and particularly aggressive (asking people to download the videos) and I feel sad and violated.

At the end of piece , I said that I would consider re editing the videos in light of my new thoughts. But instead he has resorted to this.

Here are some of the reasons (which I sent to him)

Getting fame and credo from another’s embarrassment

I revisited the videos and started to try and watch them from the points of view of the people who don’t come off so well in them. For example, in the canary Wharf video, the first security guard panics and says ‘you cant protest’ etc. Here is a guy paid a pittance by these crazy rich corporations to dress like a policeman and order people about. Its clearly not his fault that he doesn’t know how to deal with 2 slick talkers who have done some research. And I imagined how it would feel for him if he watches himself or worse how it would feel for his kids. The same applies to the PCSO in Camden who called me an idiot.

Creating a false Image

When you watch me on a youtube video, you don’t actually see me. There is only one of me and that is the one sitting here in my office typing away. What you see is an image. A 2D representation. And you see ideas that appeared in my consciousness in the past. And based on that, most people build up an idea of what I am like. If you think you know who I am or what I am, I suspect you are mistaken. And what usually happens is people create an idealised picture of who/what I am. And then if I am not careful, I have to spend more and more energy propping up this false image. For example, people say ‘I love you Danny’ but who they are loving is an image of me in their mind. If you were to live in my home for a while, she would see another side of me – a less peaceful side. Its tiring and unhelpful for everyone to have this false image thing going on.

Creating a movement

I had no intention of creating any ‘movement’ when I started out. How could I start a movement ? I wouldn’t know what this movement would do ? I have so little knowledge of politics, economics, law – not even at GCSE level so What on earth do I know ? Besides, movements can create separation – I am a member of that movement and you are not ! Yet there is plenty of speak of a ‘movement’ from commentators of our videos.

Encouraging people to think for themselves

One of the purposes of what I do is to encourage people to think for themselves. Having others to think for us can be a hard habit to break. The ironic thing for me is that I struggle immensely with this. I find it so hard to trust myself and run to all sorts of teachers, gurus, therapists etc to seek advice. (Someone recently pointed out that advice = ADD VICE. What I notice happening with these videos is people not questioning what Charlie or I say. Since I have stopped making the videos, this is particularly pronounced with Charlie.
In a recent video from the Iranian channel press TV, Charlie and ‘Olly the Octopus’ were being interviewed and at 2 points in the interview, Olly had the Chutzpah to challenge Charlie….

Charlie: Let's not raise the public into this clever group that can choose politicians . . .

Olly: I think the public are more intelligent than you give them credit for . . .

And then later . .

Charlie: there is no terror threat, except in our minds . . .

Olly: That's not strictly true though is it . . .

The comments on that video shocked me – slagging off Olly for daring to challenge their guru Charlie ! It felt like the complete opposite of what I wanted. I have learned the most from those who give intelligent critical feedback but this is not happening with these videos.

Focusing on lack

One of things I criticise the press for doing is putting so much negativity into our minds. Training us to focus on lack of rather than on what we want. If you look at the underlying messages of the videos, even though they are done with humour, some of the messages encourage people to focus on lack. And I am not sure that this is helpful. Just because people think that our videos are helpful, doesn’t necessarily mean that they are. And of course it could be that some parts and aspects are helpful and some are not.

People doing it on their own

Another benefit of taking down the videos is that it can encourage people to get in touch with their own creative juices and create something themselves. Every person reading this blog can be in touch with infinite creativity even though you may not know this.
Here is wording from a comment by jticchi on Charlies video ‘A new beginning’ ……’Danny's videos were very good at waking people up, its a shame they're gone but it signals that now its time for the people that he woke up to go out and wake up others!!
Sending your friends a clip of what Danny did is good for waking them up, but doing some action of your own accord will be even more effective and give them more courage to do the same by showing them that people they know can do this too, not just a guy on youtube.’

Taking responsibility and ownership of my image and sound

As I said, I had no idea that the videos would become this popular and no idea what to expect if they did. I feel now that the decision to leave the editing to Charlie and allow him to put things up on his channel was unwise. In fact one of the main reasons for asking Charlie to remove my image was the videos he made about revolution. The straw that broke the camels back was the video ‘Unanimous Declaration of the Resistance’ in which he says he is forming a worldwide army ! I wanted to disassociate myself with anything like this. Whilst I think it’s a ridiculous thing to say, it lays himself wide open for all sorts of possible problems. If some police officers are sometimes stupid enough to search a man with a megaphone on suspicion of terrorism, God only knows how the minds of intelligence personnel work. But now that I look back on it, I feel it’s the most responsible thing to do to take back ‘ownership’ and therefore responsibility for my image. I am aware that the idea of ownership is fiction as is so much of our so called reality. But I live in the fiction and haven’t managed to free myself of it or even come close.

Family peace

It is always difficult to know whether to spend my time working on having a peaceful home or going out on the streets trying to make a difference. The man I mentioned at the beginning suggested that if I cant create a peaceful home, what good am I on the streets trying to create a peaceful world ? Whilst I don’t entirely agree with him, I think he has a point. It is my intention to work harder on creating a peaceful home first or at least as a strong priority.

Demonstrating separation

Another problem with the videos is that some of the interactions with police and security were actually a demonstration of separation. It is so easy to forget the maxim that we are all part of the one concioussness and of course one of the things so many people talk about is the oneness of everything. This is a lovely theory but it’s the practise that counts. If I forget that police officers are human beings too, then I am reinforcing the ‘us and them’ syndrome.

Who is following us ?

Another problem with youtube and the net is that we have no idea who is following our work. Leave aside the intelligence services for the moment. The stuff we have been putting out can be construed as anti establishment. This can attract fundamentalist right wingers or in fact any fundamentalists. (Whatever that means.) I just received an email from a friend who noticed that on a facebook discussion group (there are a few EOK/Love POlice groups) they were saying that the reason I wanted the videos removed is because I have BANKER friends and I didn’t want to upset the establishment. This is complete nonsense because although I do know people in the banking sector, I have no close friends in that sector. But I now see how easily people can build up a picture of someone based on some YT videos and then if that person doesn’t live up to these imagined standards, all of a sudden love can turn to hate ! And what if I did have banker friends ? Would that be a crime ?

Hypocrisy

It was suggested recently to me that we cannot avoid living with some hypocrisy. I certainly cannot. I am still deeply in the system. I run a business and pay taxes and use lots of energy and consume plenty. I do try and limit these things. (eg I get my electricity from renewable sources, drive an electric car, do not eat meat and try not to waste food etc) But these are tiny things. If you all lived in my home and followed me for a few weeks, some of you may be horrified by the hypocrisy you see. And this is why I don’t feel that I am even close to be in a position to start off any movement. Perhaps if I lived on a farm, in a yurt using only wind powered energy and eating only local home grown produce, perhaps then I may be a bit closer to starting off a movement.

Fear and Anger

To my knowledge, I have never told anybody not to be afraid. That is more Charlie’s style. I wouldn’t do that simply because I am aware of how afraid I am of all sorts of things. I am aware of the law of attraction mentioned above and about concepts of creating our own reality. At the same time my real life experience includes fear. People often comment on the videos ‘Danny, you are so brave.’ What they are doing is projecting their own fears on to me. For me it was completely natural to do that. In fact it was often an escape from dealing with stuff in the home. I also experience anger at different levels of intensity. And I am still exploring the most healthy ways to relate to it. So yes – at times I do feel frightened of the possible consequences of questioning authority.

Focussing on that which is external

One of the many problems with the media is that they keep our focus of attention on the external. This means that our minds are trained to blame others and become victims of others rather than looking within to change our perception and thus our experience of life. If you were to analyse the videos we made, at least some of them would be reinforcing this way of thinking. Whilst many people say that the videos gave them a lift, this does not mean that the videos were nourishing for their souls. I have been amazed at the responses to some of the videos Charlie made on his own, which I personally find destructive but thousands seem to find positive. I am not saying I am right and they are wrong. I just question the constructiveness of the videos even though people may think that the videos help them.

I have no idea what the future holds and I prefer not to make final decisions until after THE final decision (my death!) Therefore it is possible that I will be happy to have the videos put back. I have also thought that they could be edited again in light of the above. SO for example, we could blank out the faces of anyone who we think does not come out well on the videos. And of course there is also a real possibility that I will stick to the request and trust that there are many others just as able as I who will step into the gap. Could that person be you ?

92 comments:

The Free Advice Man said...

Everything you have written here is exactly as I sensed it to be the case. From a purely Ethical point of view it is very un-Ethical or anti-Ethical of Charlie to do what he has now done. But I foresaw much of what has transpired between the two of you, and I lament that I was not more effective at opening some windows that would have given you a clearer, better view. For this I am sorry. I learn from my failures. That said; I am certain that Charlie has no legal right to exploit your image, name and person against your will and in a manner that could endanger your welfare. The Torah teaches us not to do harm and instead, if anything, to do Tikkun Olam. Let me know if I can be of any help Danny. Shabbat Shalom l'kol Beit Shine. Best, JP

snapstring said...

Danny, you seem a very honourable man. I agree from my limited perspective that Charlie seems to be cultivating a celebrity-esque identity, despite his very good intentions. however, i have never met either of you. For what its worth, I stopped catching up on the love police videos when you were no longer in them - the tone changed for the worse. Charlie, if you read this, be sure I will check out the latest vids to see whats going down these days to see if it resonates with me, but please have a good look at what Danny has said here, I was feeling very similar before Danny spelt it out. For what its worth, I consider you both to be right-hearted individuals still learning to walk. Please don't run just yet xx

Anonymous said...

It's sad to see you taking yourself so seriously that long-winded critiques of Charlie and lengthy denigration of his character seem necessary to you in order to justify your change of heart and nervousness when your own actions took you to a place you eventually decided you didn't like.

The videos were all over the net anyway, it made no sense and serves no real purpose for them not to be on Charlie's channel too. He put so much work into them and was an important part of them. They were public actions made public and they are loved by many thousands. I understand your wish for them to be removed, given your change of heart, but your attitude of entitlement to this and displeasure at not getting your way is disappointing
and, I feel, rather hypocritical given your message and your willingness for the wishes of others that you encountered in the videos to be overridden by your 'cause' at the time.

It was right that you put the work you were doing before the wishes of the Police, security guards and others you encountered, because it was important work, inspiring to thousands. Now I think it's time to apply the same standards to yourself.

I don't think what you have done has put you in any real danger - it's not like you were protesting the dictatorship on the streets of Iran, with death looming.

I think you've perhaps lost perspective.

Still, I love you and loved your message and will always be grateful to you for that.

I wish you well.

Anonymous said...

lol

Anonymous said...

Danny, I loved what you did in those videos -- I can honestly say that you must have brought a breath of air and light and laughter into many lives. However, as a father, as a family man, who has others to think of, their wellbeing and peace, you have every right to withdraw from publicity.

Probably Charlie doesn't understand that due to his age, single status etc. That is no sleight to him; he seems a nice guy, but he has the privelege of carefree youth on his side. You as a man of responsibilities, has less of that space to play. Understandable.

All the best, and love and light to you and Charlie.

God bless. You have done beautiful work, and I find myself thinking about your efforts very often. They are an uplift to many. As you said, we all have to take it from here, and work out our own paths. No leaders, no gurus, no masters.

Mario.

Specialis Sapientia said...

I agree with the first Anonymous at 3:36 AM

Your view on the whole thing appears to be too negative.

You are right about most of your points, but you are giving them far too much weight. Those points do simply not outweigh the sheer positive effect it has on people. We are all one, that is why the growth of the whole system is more important than one individual. The equation gives that the net gain for the thousands of viewers who gets the opportunity the grow just the slightest is more than the loss of that only to your privacy and fears.

Don't focus that much on the negative sides, they are there, but they do not outweigh everything else!

You seem to stress the difference in you and Charlie, but what about the similarity? The goal is the same, the methods is just a bit different. And even though Charlie made the video about the resistance, it was a mistake, I thought he admitted that? We learn by our mistakes, and we forgive ourselves. Why not forgive him?

I think you need to forgive yourself, you are putting too much weight on your shoulders, of course one has more responsibility when one is more aware or has the broader perspective, but going into self-critical mode is not productive, going 180 degrees is not productive either.

Start seeing the similarities instead of differences, start seeing the good messages in Charlie's and yours work.

Nothing of this have been a coincidence, you meeting Charlie was neither a coincidence. It was simply needed, for the accelerated growth of YOU and us.

View From The Other Side said...

Danny

I've not been on the receiving end of your videos but my job is a state one .. and colleagues have been.

They show that many have a lack of awareness .. and could learn from responding not reacting to others. If you got me on a bad day no doubt I'd be good material.

I've found them to be rather grounding. What's done is done .. let the past be and move forward as you wish to ..

The videos are your past and the past can't be undone .. all that matters is the present.

Good luck to you and thanks for making me smile .. inside and out

Curtis said...

Danny, I don't know you. I don't know Charlie either. I don't know your wants and desires, your fears and your anxieties. But I do know this. What you 2 did together was beautiful and RIGHT. To ask that these vids be taken down is an affront to my sensibilities(i can only speak for myself) I know that you don't want your message corrupted, and I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a way to paint you in a bad light.

Hell, I certainly don't agree with violent revolution. Now, a peaceful and loving revolution I would love to see. And you helped show the way to that door.
I've said this before, and I'm saying it again, because I think you need to hear this.(again my own opinion, but I'm strongly opinionated:D) Asking to take these vids down is paromount to letting the fear win. If you're not doing this anymore(making the vids) then what do you have to worry about? Do you really think that Charlie is going to get a bunch of people together, grab some guns and ammo, and try to take over the gov't? Do you actually believe that these vids are going to damage your standing to the PTB? I'm trying not to make judgements here, and I can only hope that you see reason here. If only for your own sanity. At any rate, even before you asked that these vids be taken down, they already seem to have been reposted by someone else.. several somebodies. I'm not trying to make you feel stupid or anything of that nature at all. I'm just pointing out that the internet is bigger than you or I, and it has an ecosystem all it's own. There is no copyright for anything anymore, and suggesting that the vids be taken down, is just not feasible anymore. I wish you only peace and happiness. I'm not going to go so far as to say it's fear that is causing this to happen, but I know that it is a big part of it. Maybe bigger than you are willing to admit to yourself. I only ask that you take yet another deep look into your soul, and purge any negativity you may find. Shalom.

Sheeplecorporation said...

Hi Danny,
I have some mixed feelings over the things you have said in your blog. I get what your saying about the person we see in the videos isn't really you, but the videos inspire people positively. Myself as i mentioned in one of my own videos was suffering from different things, and was like like a lost sheep on a crossroads looking for some direction to travel in lifes journey. After sitting with my children watching the videos last summer for 6 hours, i was inspired by both you and Charlie. That inspiration even if you consider isn't based on the real you or the real charlie but the projected image, gave me such inspiration to begin turning my life around and start my own youtube channel, where i in my own way try to get people thinking and feeling more.

I don't know the real Danny or the real Charlie but your collective videos of everything ok do such positivity for this world by far outweighing any of the negative aspects that you mention.

Even the Friends i have that are more materialistic than most begin to see the world in a different way after watching the videos, they begin to question is there more in this world than working 24/7 to pay the mortgage.

If only Danny you could see the positivity that you have done in these videos, not just focusing on any of the negatives aspects of them as you seem to.

Yes Charlie made a big mistake with the resistance video, but its extremely clear to anyone who has seen the videos in detail this was perception had nothing to do with your own.

Lastly i want to say as a family man myself i relate fully to your feelings of fear for your family when putting yourself out there in front of the world. But i ask what kind of world will our children live in once we are gone, if we as human beings don't spread love in the world, or question the things that we find wrong?

Danny... Everything is ok.

Anonymous said...

THIS IS THE UNDERCOVER ANTI-TERRORIST SQUAD. WE ARE HERE TO RAISE LOVE AND LOWER FEAR! EVERYTHING IS OK.

These are your words. RAISE LOVE AND LOWER FEAR!

We love you Danny, but we don't agree with you. Please raise your love and lower your fear.

danny shine said...

thanks for all your comments. i read them all. i think you will find that the words 'this is the undercover anti-terrorist squad - we are hear to lower fear and raise love' are charlies. I have never to my knowledge gone around telling people to be less fearful. i dare not because I know how much fear I experience. it feels unhelpful to have someone to tell me to be less fearful. but thanks for trying anyway. i think that the above article shows clearly that fear is not by any means the only reason I had for asking for the videos to be taken down (evev if for a while to reassess where we are with them and reedit some of them if necessary

Rich:Craig said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rich:Craig said...

Danny, I send my love in this trying time, not because you need it, but because it is the only language I've ever seen you speak.

The new illusion is here, as always maya finds a new way to dance, you are brahman, outside of the illusion, you owe the illusion nothing, regardless of the words printed above.

Eventually the illusion is so pervasive, the guru himself becomes trapped in it, and projects his blindness of this fact onto others. Those within the illusion, within maya, look out and see a sphere reflecting themselves over others.

I agonised over wading into this conflict for a while, it was for the same reasons you have taken your action that my youtube video's have gone silent. I think we came to a similar set of conclusions at a similar time.

I do not have a particularly well known face and do not feel I hold much influence over the people who comment on yours and danny's vlogs but it is not for them I write this, I value your oppinion and feel you have valued mine in the past. And so I've spent a good half hour thinking about these words before I sent them.

Everything is ok.
Rich

A Person said...

If you started this journey with the best intentions, enjoyed yourself and inspired others, then that is more than most men accomplish in a lifetime.

All the best Danny.

Malynda said...

Hi Danny,

I propose a compromise. If you are agreeable, perhaps Charlie could remove you and place a big smiley face or heart or “Everything is OK” sign instead. Charlie has the editing skills. That would maybe solve the issue for both parties. Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for alleviating the cognitive dissonance that many like myself felt from the beginning. Thank you for respectfully expressing those sentiments that I had always had but didn't want to believe. I am thankful to Charlie for one thing only, that through your brief collaboration with him I was able to witness your spirit in action. You are correct to distance yourself from these strange ambitions. His accusations seem more like projections. His pleas like enticements. Hard to explain, but I think you have done a fair job expressing your (our) concerns. So know that what you have shown the world cannot be co-opted by the silly sloganeering and overwrought narcissism of the "movement" types. I wish you and your family the best. Your gentle insights, hilarious shenanigans and immovable lovingkindness will never be lost on those with the tiniest spark of discernment. Thank you, Danny, my heart is with you.

radical said...

Well Danny, that is a sad blog - a sad way to end something so special. But perhaps we have all relied too much on your joint efforts to awaken the masses, forgetting that we too can make valuable contributions. Maybe we should just take your good example and start to run with this thing ourselves. What greater tribute could there be than the promotion of hundreds or even thousands of people willing to continue your cause in some way?

So, I thank you for your inspiration Danny, but I am disappointed with your ultimate stance. Now let's see the next generation make their mark.

calbannach said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Anonymous, you said above.

"I am thankful to Charlie for one thing only, that through your brief collaboration with him I was able to witness your spirit in action."

This "one thing" you are grateful to Charlie for - providing the videos of them both in action - is the very thing Charlie is now being criticized for and which Danny wants to stop. Isn't that ironic?

Without those videos created by Charlie, you would not have been positively inspired by Danny or touched by his 'spirit', and without Charlie's decision to reinstate those videos, thousands would be deprived of that same inspiration in the future.

"Your gentle insights, hilarious shenanigans and immovable lovingkindness will never be lost..."

Hang on, If Danny has his way they will! Because they would be completely removed from the net as if they never were. If people continue to appreciate the "gentle insights, hilarious shenanigans and immovable loving kindness" and if their ripples of positivity and love continue to radiate out into the world, it will be because Charlie made sure of it.

You criticize Charlie - which is fair enough, of course - and praise Danny, yet it's ironic that without Charlie you and others wouldn't have had the opportunity to appreciate Danny, and the thousands yet to be delighted by viewing these joyful and free expressions of unbounded human spirit would be deprived on the opportunity you had and so appreciate.

As I said, it's ironic.

Anonymous said...

The soap opera.

So . . . . all this is a side show of kinds, I am sure most would agree, including (I would guess) Danny. I don't mean to trivialise any concerns Danny has - I have a 2 year old son and would not put him at any kind of risk (and even here we are 'begging the question') - but a side show it certainly is.

[joins side show . . . . ]

I am amazed so much effort and blog space and video uploads and channel comments and blog comments and arguments and counter-arguments (and so on) have been spent on this - whilst the issues that matter (the claims made in the videos, the ideas put forward) attract practically no challenge, debate or questioning.

If we are to role out the word 'Sheeple' (the truth movement's 'nigger' or 'infidel' or otherwise benighted) - what better place for application than amongst the throng of unquestioning hand-clappers ?

Charlie could post a video claiming that he is going to fly to America and place Jesse Jackson under arrest for the mass killing of the secret moon people (or some other outlandish claim) and the most he will likely be challenged on is:

"Hey, charlie, love what you are doing, great vid, what's the name of the track playing in the background ? - namaste"

The whole thing is like a BNP meeting where a party speaker tells his audience that in the coming years Muslims will turn cannibal and eat the natives - and after the clapping has died down the only question fielded from the audience is "Nick, where did you get that great shirt and tie combo?".

And then when a founding member of the party is thrown out or leaves - a long ongoing debate on the issues surrounding his departure ensues . . . . . whilst the insane and unproven notion of cannibal Muslims remains ignored, undebated, unchallenged.

Now don't get me wrong, Charlie shouldn't be expected to answer questions from everyone and anyone, there are no demands on him to do so, yet he claims to engage in debate whilst actually censoring it, not only are questions ignored, marked as 'spam' and generally unwelcome, but ask a direct and simple question in Charlie's 'channel comments' section and it will be deleted.

Can I ask you Danny, were you not ever interested or intrigued to ask Charlie how he thinks he will, in less than 18 months, pull off his planned removal of the British government ?

Anonymous said...

LOL, Hello, MrsStraightA. I saw your comment (right above this above this one) criticizing Charlie and recognized you immediately. LOL

Well, it's what you do, isn't it?

Looks like you may have finally found a place to call home. I think perhaps why people see your actions as trolling and mark them as spam is because you post the same messages across multiple videos and are extremely repetitive, relentless and single-minded in your general badmouthing of Charlie (hence why I recognized your). After a while I think people find it rather unhelpful and tiresome.

Anonymous said...

>>**LOL, Hello, MrsStraightA. I saw your comment (right above this above this one) criticizing Charlie and recognized you immediately. LOL**<<

Hi there whoever you are, yes it's me 'MrsStraightA'.

>>**I think perhaps why people see your actions as trolling and mark them as spam is because you post the same messages across multiple videos and are extremely repetitive, relentless and single-minded in your general badmouthing of Charlie (hence why I recognized your). After a while I think people find it rather unhelpful and tiresome.**<<

Not at all, look at the post above yours (my first here) - I do not criticise Charlie personally (beyond that he deletes questions) but I would hardly call a complaint that questions are deleted "badmouthing of Charlie" ?

You could make a decent case for the idea that I am criticising his followers for their lack if intellectual rigour, but not Charlie himself, nor any follower *personally*, my criticism is aimed at the general lack of debate, discussion and challenge.

That is where these things collapse, when people start to push the debate to one side and concentrate of criticising the person rather than the idea they are putting forward, I have been guilty of this more than once for sure, but I make an effort to make any criticism about the idea rather than about the person putting forward that idea.

My questions are spread over a few videos as I have yet to get an answer, as each one is marked as 'spam' - I will ask the question again.

If you feel it is tiresome and unhelpful to ask questions, I would ask you what you believe would be helpful, to remain silent, toe the party line, stand at the side and clap ?

My own view is that people asking questions and challenging our ideas is actually a very good thing, not something to be hostile towards but something healthy.

Charlie is putting forward the most extraordinary claims, that he will usurp the status quo, the removal of governments, marching into Whitehall, claims that if met would dramatically impact on my life, my child's life, my family, on everybody's life and every time I enquire about even the most trivial details I am - for want of a better word - 'told off' - deleted, flagged as 'spam', and the usual stream invective and hostility.

And what have you done here, what have you taken the time to do today, to respond to my post . . . *(which is essentially arguing for less of the soap opera and more debate, more challenge, more questioning, more discussion)* . . . by telling me I am a troll, extremely repetitive, relentless, single-minded, badmouthing, unhelpful and tiresome.

What did you hope to achieve by doing that, to change my mind ? Did you think by ascribing me this list of unfavourable attributes that it would make me think twice before next challenging Charlie's ideas ?

I don't know you at all, so cannot match your attack, I have no grounds at all to call you names and so on - the only thing I might ask you to think about is why on earth you think people who subscribe to Charlie's ideas would be so hostile to having those ideas challenged.

By way of an example - the following question has now been deleted 7 or 8 times from various videos and Charlie's channel comments section (the questions that make it through and are not 'spammed' are ignored and rated with so many 'down thumbs' that they end up locked (you are unable to read them)

My Question is - once you have removed the government and occupy Downing Street - will you hold onto power or will you allow a democratic system of some kind to re-emerge ?

What do you think it is about that question that causes such a flight from debate ?

Anonymous said...

Hi MrsStraightA.

"I might ask you to think about is why on earth you think people who subscribe to Charlie's ideas would be so hostile to having those ideas challenged."

Well, I'd also like you to consider that rather than everybody else and Charlie being at fault, that perhaps there is something about the way you come across that is earning you this response.

It could be that everyone is a slavish follower of Charlie who will brook no challenge to their Guru... or they may legitimately feel your comments reflect an attitude they don't find helpful or sincere.

There is a difference between asking sincere open-minded questions and being a disruptive heckler whose 'questions' display a consistent attempt to portray someone negatively. Deservedly or not, you seem to have earned a reputation as the latter. If this is not deserved then perhaps they way you express yourself is not doing you any favours and needs to be amended.

I also think ti would be better to know, rather than suspect and claim as fact that Charlie actively deletes your comment. You may be accusing him falsely. Youtube has many glitches. I know I have had comments disappear many times from many videos on many channel. I have also criticized Charlie quite strongly in the past and my comments weren't removed. Actually I get the impression he pays little attention to them and rarely responds.

Youtube comments boxes are not the place to engage someone is serious debate, especially if they don't usually respond to comments or even bother to read most of them, as appears to be the case with Charlie. So continually trying to draw him into debate there and constantly accusing him of avoiding debate and ignoring questions or deleting them seems rather 'set up' as just another excuse to be negative about him.

Anyway, I don't want to contribute to Danny's blog being hijacked into a place devoted to endless critiques of Charlie or those who appreciate what he does, so I'll leave it there.

Anonymous said...

I understand your decision Danny and i respect your decision. However I do feel that the videos you shared have inspired people, I was inspired and every time I see the videos i feel more motivated to follow in your footsteps. However that is not my intent. I totally see where you are coming from in regards to Charlie's behavior. I think he has let the fame spoil his true intentions. He now looks to please the viewers, forgetting about the message he is spreading. I am not going to lie, I downloaded some of the videos. However i have no intent of sharing them, I use them as inspiration, I look to them to lift me up on a sad day, and I look to them for hope that all will end well. I wish you the best, and I hope that in the near future you will recognize the old Danny, the Danny before Charlie.

Gail said...

We have control over very few things in our life, but being true to ourselves is very powerful and something we have full control over.

I'm not going to share my feelings on this subject, as I see it, what is important here is that, Danny, you are being true to yourself and I commend you for that. I too have been through a similar situation, where I had to walk away from a partnership for similar reasons. My situation opened up, for me, an opportunity for magnificent self discovery and opportunities resulting in a true feeling of inner peace.

That experience was one of many life changing experiences for me and am thankful for it.

I hope Danny, you too, can find inner peace with your choices and realize that you do not owe anyone any explanations for your actions. At that point, everything will be truly ok in the purest sense.

Gail

Anonymous said...

PART ONE (MrStraightA)


>>**Well, I'd also like you to consider that rather than everybody else and Charlie being at fault, that perhaps there is something about the way you come across that is earning you this response.**<<

Possibly, I have been deliberately frank a number of times, but the reason I doubt this is the reason debate is censored (and here I am not being overly dramatic) is that even questions asked in the most polite tones receive much the same treatment - and furthermore putting me, as someone challenging some of Charlie's ideas, to one side - the point remains that there is no discussion, no debate, no challenges or questioning of Charlie's ideas amongst the comments sections - if anyone thinks anything of any worth will grow from this environment then I would have to disagree.

>>**It could be that everyone is a slavish follower of Charlie who will brook no challenge to their Guru... or they may legitimately feel your comments reflect an attitude they don't find helpful or sincere.**<<

As I say even asking perfectly reasonable questions - and asking them perfectly politely - receives much the same response.

You only need look at the treatment Olly got (which Danny mentions in his blog post) for challenging Charlie on two points during the Press TV interview - the hostility from both Charlie himself during the interview and his followers was simply incredible - he did little more than attempt to temper Charlie's absolutist stance with some reason.

>>**There is a difference between asking sincere open-minded questions and being a disruptive heckler whose 'questions' display a consistent attempt to portray someone negatively.**<<

There is absolutely no difference, neither route results in debate or conversation. Also the idea of a 'disruptive heckler' resonates rather well with something I see surfacing amongst Charlie's followers - on more than one occasion I have been told that 'I ask too many questions' - 'I think too much' and 'debate is bad for unity' - all sounding very much like some Orwelian horror show - 'stand in line, do not question !!'

I am being a little unfair on you here, 'disruptive heckler' in not quite in that vein, but equally I would say it was unfair on me too, I do not stand at the side and shout abuse, I have some valid questions to ask, questions I would think everyone would be keen to hear the answers to.

Anonymous said...

PART TWO (MrStraightA)

>>**I also think ti would be better to know, rather than suspect and claim as fact that Charlie actively deletes your comment. You may be accusing him falsely. Youtube has many glitches.**<<


Agreed, I didn't make the accusation lightly, I deliberately retyped my questions changing their form so as to not trigger the automatic spam filter on cut and paste posts, I PM'd him, I made comments on his 'channel comments' section - they appeared just fine, other people posted after me, my post was just fine, the following day only my posts had gone, perhaps there is a glitch, but I think it only reasonable (given I have done this several times) to conclude that Charlie deletes my posts (in the channel comments section at least) - it is a reasoned belief - and of course I could be wrong, but regardless the point remains, challenge is frowned upon whether posts are kept or deleted.


>>**Youtube comments boxes are not the place to engage someone is serious debate, especially if they don't usually respond to comments or even bother to read most of them, as appears to be the case with Charlie. So continually trying to draw him into debate there and constantly accusing him of avoiding debate and ignoring questions or deleting them seems rather 'set up' as just another excuse to be negative about him.**<<

Not at all, he has claimed to be keen to engage in debate, open to opinion, even inviting me to PM him, which I have done a few times - and here we find much the same response, silence , avoided questions or instructing me to take the conversation to the comments section (where of course he will ignore any questions).

This is one area I agree with him on, I see no reason why debate can not be held in the comments section, you are quite right it (YouTube's comments section) is less than ideal, but it is (just) sufficient - and I also think these conversations are best held openly so everyone can be involved, can contribute or add points if they wish, I see no need to exclude anyone from anything I have to say.

>>**Anyway, I don't want to contribute to Danny's blog being hijacked into a place devoted to endless critiques of Charlie or those who appreciate what he does, so I'll leave it there.**<<

I m sure (hope) Danny doesn't mind debate, he can always delete posts he doesn't feel fit it, but this all seems broadly relevant -to me at least.


MrStraightA

Jeff said...

Loved you in the videos. After reading your blog I can understand why you no longer do the videos with Charlie. I do hope though that it is for the family situation and not the technical issues that you see wrong with your videos. I am the Video editor as well as "truther" and work with WeAreChange Vancouver. Your videos are gold and there is nothing wrong with them.

I see nothing wrong with busting the guards "balls". When things hit the fan that guy will be stomping on us and he needs to know there is another side to this battle. It is not necessarily the "best" tactic but it might wake him up.

In my mind there is no right or wrong way, it's an ever-changing, organic battle front. I know I'm speaking in military terms and that is wrong but until we weed out the Bankers and evil that is entrenched in our society, culture jamming videos are needed to show the rest of the world that there are other people out there fighting and that its ok to speak out.

You have mad skills I say take on a new apprentice and get him making videos similar to Charlie's. You can still be very effective without the limelight.

Keep fighting!


The way I see it you helped a man get the ball rolling. His tactics may not be the best but they are working and thats what matters.

sophie said...

For me looking at this, what is going on with you and charlie, i think it's a macrocosm of what is going on inside my head, and i reckon many others.

It's the paradox of the awake!

You're bundled with all this information swinging you every way with every possible emotion you can imagine, and you're torn between wanting everyone to see the world with awake eyes/feeling content that you have faith in the universal powers and everything just *is*/going out putting it into practise working as an undercover love ambassador/feeling as though you SHOULD be trying to help people wake up/everyone has their own path and if they find it, they find it etcetcetc
Enough waffling what i'm trying to say, i think, is that your argument (whatever you want to call it) with charlie is exactly the conflicting thoughts and actions that are going on in everyones heads and lives who are opening themselves up to this information, i know it is in mine, hourly.

But then when you're going over all this stuff, mental inventory and its ALL so overwhelming and confusing, you realise you're missing the most blindingly obvious point that it's all so simple, and all the information you know is actually telling you that the ONLY thing you can rely on is love, but without chaos there is no order...

which im sure you have worked out for yourself, which is why, sort of, you wanted the vids removed, because it was getting complicated? but the answer is simple?

shit i don't mean to try and psychoanalyse you, not that i could, but just saying what it's like from my view

Anyway, it will be alright in the end, and if it's not alright, it's not the end
much love

simdartha said...

Hi Danny,
why worry so much about creating separation?
forgot about duality of things(like yin/yang) - you can't have oneness in life without separation since life begins with a separation, birth.
every thought is a separation and if you have a "di"alogue to create oneness you can't do it without separation. there's always both - oneness and separation in a dualistic universe.

when reading your blog, it seems a little you're struggling for answers and with fears - ever tried these?

to find truth inside yourself:
http://www.amazon.com/Siddhartha-Hermann-Hesse/dp/1441419519/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269123189&sr=8-1

it's all about deconditioning (fear is just a habit, too):
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Living-Vipassana-Meditation/dp/0060637242/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269123162&sr=8-1

namasté :-)

danny shine said...

Thanks for all your wonderful comments. They are all read and appreciated

THE GREAT RED DRAGON said...

Hi Danny,
first let me say thanks for taking the time not only to have created such powerful videos for us but also for writing this blog and sharing your feelings and thoughts with us. We are so removed from each other in modern life every bit of communication can only be a good thing.

Now, I only found the love police/EIOK vids last month and was dissapointed when they began to be removed as I found they had affected me very deeply. They had the effect I think you intended - they made me think - made me evauate myself and my situation and how my existence affects reality in general.

I never took anything in the videos for granted or as gospel but they did challenge me to think about my life and how I can make my world a better place for myself and for everyone.

To me it seems you and Charlie were fated to meet and dance this dance. I can't say I believe in destiny or free will or any particular idealology for that matter but it seems the 2 of you are meant to challenge each other. the pair of you are ying and yang imo.

Your individual circumstances have made you both the way you are but it seems the areas in which you both fall short (and that is not meant as an insult I just cannot articulate my thoughts accurately enough) is where the other is strongest.

Charlie seems to be impulsive and confrontational whilst you are contemplative and almost shy. He needs you, you offer him an alternative point of view which seems to reign in his more grandoise ideas.

You need him because he forces you to step outside of you comfort zone. You should believe in yourself much more, I know you say self belief is one of your weaknesses (and belief in anything too much seems to lead to negative effects) but YOU ARE IMPORTANT. Not because you are the leader of some quasi-revolution but because you are a human being and as such we are all important and our views and ideas are all important.

Case in point - YOU HAVE HELPED ME. You do not know me, nor I you but your existence has helped mine. The videos have benefitted me.

I was upset when the vids where removed but am also upset that they have returned as for me it seems Charlies inner demons have manipulated him without him even knowing (much as I am sure they have you as well). The message of universal love and togetherness seems to be getting forgotten and that is why I believe you were so important in balancing the direction of the 'love police'

With that said it is obvious that in this day and age you have no control over your own image. As soon as those videos were uploaded they belonged to the internet network - it will be impossible to remove them in my honest opinion.

What is done is done though, what matters is what you do from now on. I would urge you to talk to Charlie. If you are intent on not being a part of Charlies 'movement' then that is fine we all have to walk our own paths but I really think you are both meant to be with each other for some reason I am sure you could both benefit from discussing your issues further. We must all communicate with each other much more.

I just want to say thankyou for being you and I hope no matter what happens in the future you can have the happiness you deserve.

Peace and Namaste

THE GREAT RED DRAGON said...

Just wanted to add that with the confusion we all face everyday, both internaly and externaly it is next to impossible to determine what choice we make is the correct one or even if there is a correct one.

The only thing we can do is to trust in our feelings and instincts - do what you feel is right

Anonymous said...

I can understand where you are coming from Danny but really, you seem to be over thinking the impacts of all of this. people are not as fragile as you are making them out to be. If every one had to be perfect in order to start a movement analise how things might be interpreted before they open their mouth to speak where would the world be. it is obviouse where both of your hearts stand. and just because language is used by charlie like war and army or revolution does'nt mean it's going to envoke violent actions. It sounds to me that you have a low self image and you are ultimately afraid of how people might think about you. Where charlie has a better self image and does not care as much thus not sensoring himself in the same way as you might. Lighten up and keep focusing on what you want rather than what you don't want as you know you should. think of how many people have been inspired to realize we are not prisoners and do not need to be afraid. this is how nature works. a death/destruction always proceeds a rebuilding or rebirth. It can be no other way.
Love and Light

Anonymous said...

From the begining Charlie was creating a character product. Setup for aquisition. Build up the client base (aka beleive anything idiots) and then go commercial (like Alex buy-my-dvd Jones.) All the while spewing tripe out. You're better off without this guy. He's a news story waiting to happen.

Marcin said...

Don´t worry, and dont get hurt. As he said, his heart is wrenched and he called you the Jedi-Master. Can you see the beauty of it?
You love and strive for justice and truth, but do not let them catch you in the corner. There is no straight line. Watch out for getting lost in the ultimate fractal.

If you both cant cooperate and be united, how does any of you think the world can?

Forgive me for what I said.

Anonymous said...

hmm, this is a tough one...

i started off with commenting on the canary Wharf video part (you said the first security guard panicked and must be feeling bad) and then the paradox hit me...

you cant say he and his kids feel (or must feel) bad because you don't really know how they feel...

maybe the people(who you said suffered in the video) are actually happy that this happened to them?

hehe... now i hit another paradox, but i can't really put it into words.... it involves the matrix and the free mind versus the poor security guy... (too complex to write it down here, so i wont)


anyway...
i enjoyed watching the videos that had you in it because you had a really cool style and Charlie seemed to get ideas from you, which lead things to a great video :)

i haven't really watched his monologue videos, but the idea of having an army against the suppression isn't really a bad idea.

i don't know what he has in mind, but the army should be formed in a way, where the leader is involved in politics and people tell him what to do :D
sounds "crazy", but maybe this is where it's going? people who wake up will eventually end up in politics and start the change?
oh.. and i hit yet another paradox...
it involves money...(too complex to write it down here, so i wont).

so basically... how can this awakening be bad to anyone?
it's a start of a really big change and the Elite really sees this.
that's why they want to shut off the internet (Cass sunstein's 2008 paper and other events show this...).

..and.... i think this thing(your work) was (will be again?) a necessary thing to wake as much people up as possible, but the real change lies in the politics?
i mean... your work has to drive the society into a road, where people actually think and participate in the world?
at the moment, they are just listening to lady gaga and drinking booze, while the people at top are ripping everyone off.

now i'm not saying that you shouldn't keep your mind relaxed from the hard work or whatever, but this is the only thing most people are doing. they don't think about whats going on in the world...
and yet another paradox.... it involves the media and money...(too complex to write it down here, so i wont).

dunno if my text makes any sense, because i tend to think more complex and fast than i write...

anyway.... the education system in schools need to be re-arranged as well?? to expose the bankers elite?

i really think that they are real and they dont care about other people. thats why we only consume and we dont take the human race any further to anywhere... not even our energy consumption...
(the only thing you see taken further are the products, which is not a coincidence...)

and that is what we need to change!

you said that you can't live in a renewable way, but is it really your fault? perhaps the world needs to change first?

i think i might participate in politics at some point, but at the moment i don't really have a clue what to do :x ... money vs education... hmmm.....


and another thing... i don't think people are only watching and not doing anything. people are waking up and will eventually participate in something themselves...

the fact is that, at the moment, i can't live a day without noticing something uncool in the media and it makes me want to change things...

anyway.. i'm not sure where i'm going with this, so i'm just gonna stop..

Anonymous said...

oh... and i think the start of this video says it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSMgfuuSkhA

(the matrix movie part)
should have used that before to keep the word count down :p

Anonymous said...

to Anonymous said... @6:34 PM

why do you think alex jones builds an idiot army? have you listened to his shows and guests recently? have you done anything yourself to 'reveal' his 'scam' ?
why do you need to buy his dvd if all the movies are out on the internet for free??
do you think his researches and work isn't suppose to get repaid somehow?

Der Aufwachende said...

Danny, a few little words from germany.
Take Charly out to dinner and talked and find a way to come together again. Do the editing of the new videos together ;)

Causechange said...

If you do study the law of attraction, you should know nothing happens by accident and that everything that anyone does can be thought of as something they do want and have positive emotions about it or something they don't want and have negative emotions. you created this out of wanting or not wanting it. there is nothing wrong with it and you can't take any of it back now so it is silly to ask for the videos to be removed. Give people more credit and know that everything experience by you or the people involved in the video was exactly what was attracted and what they wanted to experience. You don't need to live on a= fa=rm or commune and be one with na=ture to be able to share and inspire people. what if martin luther king said I can't lead these people because I smoke or drink. or JFK because he was unfaithful in the past and on and on. I think you understand that you are perfect at your core and it is not what you do day to day that makes you, it is the path journey you are on that is profound. Everything happens for a reason, stop controlling ask for what you want and step into the flow.......

Popplemouse said...

nothing like writing a long response or idea then deleting it all with a smile on your face and that warmness of knowing that none of this really matters!

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that on Charlie's Youtube video comments there is virtually nothing but love expressed for Danny (and Charlie), despite some sadness at Danny's recent stance. Also, Charlie has been very loving in his praise and respect for Danny, even in the middle of this disagreement. It's all heart. Love and passion and courage and motion.

Here, Danny, psychoanalyses Charlie and extensively finds fault with him, he also does the same to himself and even to those who view Charlie's channel. Nobody is good enough, it seems, and the flaws and focusing on imagined dangers and pitfalls lead to paralysis and a desire to control and undo the past. Many of the comments here are scathingly critical of Charlie. Here it's primarily Mind, over-analysis (which is a desire and attempt to control) fear and criticism.

Quite a distinct difference.

In my simply way, I find significance in such things.

Dave H said...

Danny,

We all have a right to think and feel whatever we want to. I do feel that a more militant angle is now coming across from Mr Vietch's videos... Whether this is right or wrong I really can't judge.

But I feel that its essential to learn from every experience... and you clearly have given this much thought and careful consideration.

There seems to be an air of Alex Jones syndrome going about with Charlie now. This is no sleight on him... but I remember really hateful comments on anyone's youtube that questioned Alex Jones - usually from real fundamentalist followers of Jones. In this format certain individuals can be held up as cult leaders... and the weaker less intelligent of people will just follow these people. I think this can be dangerous.

We need to open our own eyes, heal ourselves, feel comfortable in our own skin... and gain enlightenment.

I wish you the very best in your life and hope that this issue gets resolved.

You are an erudite and learned individual Danny, and through your 2D holographic image I have learned many things.

I thank you for that.

Be well and happy.

Kindest regards,

Dave

Anonymous said...

quoted from above ^^^^ Many of the comments here are scathingly critical of Charlie.

You should argue against the critical comments not just complain about them.

Kelsey said...

I would just like to say that this "drama" seems to be to be yet another distraction from what The Love Police/Anti-Terror Squad was all about in the first place.

ONENESS, remember? We are all a part of this world, we are all a part of each other, and this ridiculous taking of sides isn't helping anyone or anything.

Why does it have to be Charlie v. Danny? Why does one have to be wrong, and other right? In my opinion, this is Fear v. Love, and each has a little bit of both.

I love both Danny and Charlie equally (and yes, I most certainly do love you, Danny, even though I have never personally met you. "Love" does not necessarily equate with idolization; I see your humanity, I see your faults, I see your hypocrisy, and love you all the same. Ditto for Mr. Veitch. I love all humans, even those who do not know that they love me.) I refuse to take sides, I refuse to project my own insecurities on either of you.

I just want you to know that what you made together, and what each has done seperately, was important and necessary and inspiring for so many people. No one is perfect, and no message or movement can be perfect, either. But the good you have done far outweighs the "bad" in my opinion.

I thank you for you part in this, and I would like to remind you that nothing happens by coincidence. Your and Charlie's meeting was "kismet"; you and he both needed the experience for your own personal growth, and the rest of humanity needed it, too. Just reading the comments, from this blog post, to the actual video comments on the EOK videos, is enough to convince me that this is all happening just as it was meant to.

Love conquers fear, so I'm going to keep on loving, whether you like it or not. And that includes you, Charlie, and the beautiful videos! All the best to you and your's, sir! Hopefully, you won't be a stranger. :)

PS You did inspire me to go out and make things happen on my own. Currently, I'm researching the laws, ordinances, etc. for my area, and will soon be out on the streets offering free hugs and all the positive energy I possess inside. That is what I took away from all of this: the world needs to smile more, they need to be reminded of what it truly means to be human. So thank you again for all you've done, and all you've inspired in me!

Anonymous said...

Response to Anonymous above at 8:07.

You said I 'should' argue against the scathing criticism of Charlie rather than 'complaining' about it.

I wasn't complaining, I was making an observation.

Why should I refute specific personal accusations when it's the making of such personal accusations AT ALL that I find unhelpful and indicative of a mindset I don't want to share?

Your comment basically seems to be saying 'you should play the game and attempt to defeat the opposing team' when it's the game ITSELF I don't feel is positive.

Sure we could all attack Charlie, and others could defend him, while others could counter-attack Danny and others defend him - what's the point in that melee?

My observation was that Danny and his supporters here seem very prepared to attack and criticize Charlie pretty heartlessly, whereas I don't see such cutting criticism about Danny coming from Charlie or in the comments on his videos. What I see there is warmth and affection and respect, even in the midst of disagreement.

To me, that is significant.

Anonymous said...

Danny,

It seems you have only started on a path, and at the moment you are going through a bit of a rough patch, with fear and doubt very much evident.
Everything is OK.
Charlie's OK.
You're OK.

Those videos will not put you or your family in any trouble, regardless of what Charlie does on his own from now on, since you have publicly severed ties with him.

The argument to take the videos down so as to clear the air for others to Do It Themselves, doesn't hold. Not enough people had seen those videos yet, it was too early to remove them for that reason.

It is perfectly OK to remind your fellow human beings to have no fear, because it is essential to liberation. We're here to help each other, no-one is totally free of fear, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't remind those who are much more fearful than us.
Doubt and fear are OK, but don't let them consume you, transend them.

Are the things you are blasting Charlie for also your issues?

Isn't it equally self-important of you to think you are so powerful as to constitute an actual threat to the SQ, enough for them to do something about you? Like what?
You think Charlie will become a Terorrist and then you'd get arrested?
Come on, you're just a harmless smart -ass joker to them!

And we like that, we love your act, we don't particularly care what you do in your private life, (i'm pretty sure you are nicer than you give yourself credit for) please grant as the level of awareness not to put you on a pedestal.
(Ignore YouTube comments!)

The truth is most of us don't have the public persona you have , and are just too shy to do these things.
Your persona is that of a wise joker in those videos, and it is soemthing that has gone on for a long time.
I saw you gathering a following quite easily, and you enjoyed it, and there is nothing wrong with that so long as you are true to yourself. It's OK for people to love what you do!
It also OK to tell them to piss off and do it themselves.

But the videos were already out there and by asking them (in fear) to be removed you created an Internet kick-back.

You are coming from a position of fear here, by your own admission. It is unreasonable, as fear often is. And this is why Charlie decided to leave the videos up a little longer.

What you did with Charlie there was just brilliant, get over it.

WE NEED THIS STUFF

Blessings

frusia123 said...

the thing is they don't love neither you or charile, not in the way we re loved by family. they love the message. and for the importance of the message it does not really matter if the messenger is perfect. it doesnt matter whether charlie is being vain or whether you are being hypocrite. the message has something eternal and absolutely perfect in it and in the same way you did not know how popular the videos would become, you also cant measure the importance of the message or its purpose. im sending you good vibrations, danny and best wishes of peace of heart

Stuart said...

Hey man,
It's nice to hear your side of the story. It makes a lot of sense now. Hope you can reconcile. But most of all, keep the videos alive. They're bigger than both of you. They're important to the world.

Peace

danny shine said...

thanks for all the continued comments. I will update with some further thoughts soon

Sean said...

It’s not about Danny or Charlie, it is about the message. The free and open nature of the internet means when things go viral, they become permanent. Plenty of people have downloaded your content even before you ever decided to remove it. The videos of you, which were once were your property, are so good that they managed to escape and replicate. While it is easy to see why you would want to erase the videos, there is no use crying over spilled milk. So don't make any more videos if you don't want to, there is nobody to criticize your personal decisions, but you guys really should make up and continue to be friends; forgive and forget, push all this negativity behind you. I love your ideas about living sustainably in a yurt. The Big Island of Hawaii still has lots of good cheap land, as well as thousands of people already living this way.

Cheers

Dick said...

Danny,

Thank you for this blog entry. As a viewer of the EOK vids I did wonder what had happened and I see now where this started and I can only say that I am sad that it has come to this in the respect of me enjoying the video's. EOK isn't Charlie and some new bods (all respect to them), EOK is Danny and Charlie for me.

I appreciate all that you have said here and agree with your sentiments about the revolution thing. We need some kind of revolution in my opinion but it is a bit pretentious of Charlie to try and start it. He can say he isn't but the video's about revolution show just this.

I also didn't much like the request for funds, I felt quite uncomfortable watching this but what peopel do with their money is up to them.

However, I will say this. The video's are not always followed and viewed blindly and just because criticism isn't voiced (typed) doesn't mean it isn't there. I am in quite a unique position as a viewer and cannot get too involved with the commenting side for professional reasons but I enjoy and agree with most of the messages given. I do what I can with regards to spreading the message of peace and love but I could not make video's myself or even attend many events/ mettigns or whatever they might be called.

Charlie is in my humble opinion getting caught up in the internet celeb identity and needs to stop this. He has more critics than supporters I fear and one wrong move or mistake could undo the good work that that particular video could do. The message needs to be passed on rather than video's of disagreements with police, pcso's, civil enforcement officers, security guards etc. being made. In the end it doesn't come across as very mature.

To end, I feel you both had a role to play in the awakening of the masses but the ego must be left at home guys.

Charlie is still continuing what he does and I hope he continues for some time but by leaving his ego at home and by starting to pass the message on instead of arguing/ disagreeing which does end up as being regarded and anti-establishment.

Danny, I even miss your solo video's. You say that we don't know you and that is true, but those solo video's gave us another aspect of you which was great while it lasted. Your journey isn't over and hopefully I will see you on my pc screen again sometime.

MetaBaron said...

OK, here's a positive idea:

Can you and Charlie meet halfway and accept each other's wizdom?

At the very least, you could both sign an agreement to keep the videos online on the condition that no money is ever made on them , and that Charlie stop using the "Everything is OK" motto unless you are working together again?

Anonymous said...

Response to Post at 8:57 AM

You said I 'should' argue against the scathing criticism of Charlie rather than 'complaining' about it. - I wasn't complaining, I was making an observation.

This scathing criticism of Charlie is largely in your mind, read through the posts here, where is the scathing criticism ? I have taken a look myself and this (below) is the most I could find (and even most of these are tempered with positive caveats).

1) Charlie - what he has done is unethical (to put the videos back up).
2) I agree from my limited perspective that Charlie seems to be cultivating a celebrity-esque identity, despite his very good intentions.
3) Yes Charlie made a big mistake with the resistance video.
4) Ask a direct and simple question in Charlie's 'channel comments' section and it will be deleted.
5) The hostility from both Charlie himself during the interview and his followers was simply incredible.

That's it ! That's all I could find, hardly scathing criticism. And that's the problem with personality cults, even the mildest challenge or criticism will be perceived by the followers as assault and attack.

Your comment basically seems to be saying 'you should play the game and attempt to defeat the opposing team' when it's the game ITSELF I don't feel is positive.

There is no 'game', people are voicing opinion on something that interests them, my point is that if you see a comment as unjustified then point that out, ask the person to justify the statement, challenge it, rather than complain that people are writing things you do not agree with.
This whole "it's the game ITSELF I don't feel is positive" stance - I can't see as anymore than than "I don't like people disagreeing with me" - none of us particularly do, but the best way to deal with it would be to engage with the issue rather than complain that people have voiced their opinion.

Sure we could all attack Charlie, and others could defend him, while others could counter-attack Danny and others defend him - what's the point in that melee?

This is just equivocation, it is their ideas that should be challenged not their personalities that should be attacked.
What's the point?
A sharing of opinion, a debate that brings out angles and ideas not immediately obvious, changing of minds, people getting things off their chest, ideas challenged and defeated, ideas refined and strengthened, one's own ideas put to the test, perhaps even a resolution of kinds.

My observation was that Danny and his supporters here seem very prepared to attack and criticize Charlie pretty heartlessly, whereas I don't see such cutting criticism about Danny coming from Charlie or in the comments on his videos. What I see there is warmth and affection and respect, even in the midst of disagreement.

To me, that is significant.
I am sure it is, but I think you are wrong, like I say where is the heartless criticism, the scathing criticism, the cutting criticism ? - most of the comments here are fairly well tempered, many are 'pro-Charlie', many neutral and those that do criticise are in no way heartless, cutting or in any way whatsoever scathing, please read through the comments, check yourself.
Charlie did not show Danny warmth and affection and respect when, after discussion and agreement (and I would presume Danny's expression of his concerns and wishes) he went back on what they had agreed - and without further discussion made the 'executive decision' to not only put the videos back up but actively encourage the wide distribution.

Technohippy said...

It seems all movements can go one way or another. Is it the personality or the message? for me the love police is all about the message. If its all about a personality then the message is doomed. This disagreement denigrates the message and makes it about the personality. Personalities get the fear, get co-opted, get isolated. The powers that be want movements to have personalities as figureheads, figureheads can be threatened, cajoled, corrupted. This disagreement is just what the powers that be want!

We are stronger together when we follow a message. Personalities engender love, loyalty, obediance, blindness. A message engenders humility, truth and honesty.

Danny and Charlie did beautiful things together that I do not have the courage to do myself and their disagreement divides us, but I have never seen such a caring set of arguments as I have on Charlies and Danny's blogs. And after all what binds us is stronger than what divides us.

I cannot now bring myself to follow Danny or Charlie exclusively and therefore I choose neither.

I follow the message.

Fear Not...Love!

Anonymous said...

Response to comment at 4:43.

So my opinions are to be rejected because you have designated me - without any evidence - as a "follower" of a "personality cult"?

See, this is exactly the kind of discussion I don't want to have.

Perhaps the reason you don't notice the scathing criticism contained in Danny's words and many of the comments on this blog site, is because you agree with those criticisms and are happy to label people in a derogatory manner.

Anonymous said...

@ 7:33

So my opinions are to be rejected because you have designated me - without any evidence - as a "follower" of a "personality cult"?

What I am saying is that taking a stance that says the debate itself (rather than a particular argument) is wrong and we should not be having it is something I disagree with.

As for you following a personality cult, yes that would be unfair accusation as I do not know you at all, it is a general observation of the culture that is quickly growing up around Charlie.


See, this is exactly the kind of discussion I don't want to have.

And yet you are having it.

To me this is much like the technique often used in arguments - where by someone talks at length and espouses their point of view and then finishes off with " . . . but I am not going to argue about this" and leaves the room.

All they are saying is that 'I want to put my point over but not listen to yours.'

And here we go . . . .

Perhaps the reason you don't notice the scathing criticism contained in Danny's words and many of the comments on this blog site, is because you agree with those criticisms and are happy to label people in a derogatory manner.

Possibly, if the criticisms seemed valid I am likely to agree with them. To be honest in response to your idea that there were scathing, cutting, heartless criticisms I only really scanned the response posts here ('removal of video's shorter version'), Danny's blog post might be frank and to the point, but the comments here don't validate your idea at all, there are as many, if not more, in support of Charlie, and like I say those that do question him are far from scathing, cutting and heartless.

Anonymous said...

@ 8:45.

If you don't read what I say in context you won't understand it.

I quoted you saying that I was a "follower" of a "personality cult" and then said "this is the kind of discussion I don't want to have", meaning, one in which derogatory labels are dished out and in which I'm insulted or my points unfairly dismissed.

In short, I don't want to engage in a mean-spirited discussion some excuse by calling it "debate".

You then said "And yet you are having it". No, I'm not having a mean-spirited debate- which is what I said I didn't want to have - or at least I'm trying to avoid it. I don't think I should have to justify that either.

But I get the impression that no matter what I say...I'll end up in an endless, pointless tangle.

Are you the same person as was discussed above, Mrsstraight or something?

But my point about the comments wasn't about how many were pro or anti Charlie. I see that a number of people have commented questioning the criticisms of Charlie. I was pointing out that there are a number of people backing Danny's criticisms of Charlie, which were scathing, with similar cutting comments of their own. I haven't seem anything like that From Charlie about Danny or in the comments on Charlie's videos. I still see that as significant. Is that because Danny is perfect, or is it just that Charlie and people commenting on his channel aren't spending their time criticizing him and deconstructing his "dark side"?

I won't post again as I think this might become neverending. That's my take on it. I was just hoping that by pointing it out, people might change the tone of discussion a bit and show a bit more heart. But it's just turned into a clinical debate.

Anonymous said...

@ 1:58 PM

I was just hoping that by pointing it out, people might change the tone of discussion a bit and show a bit more heart. But it's just turned into a clinical debate.

People have valid criticisms of Charlie, it is not wrong to express them, regardless of how they are perceived.

I would agree that is not helpful to fire heartless, cutting and scathing criticism at someone's character - perhaps necessary sometimes - but where it can be avoided, avoiding it will help the conversation, but like I have said what has been said about Charlie here is not unreasonable.

לילך said...

Hi Danny,

Lilach from Israel here.

Consider this: if i have not seen the Video, i wouldn't have known you.

May be there is the place for the Video, or editing your own Video and putting it out there as a "reply" for the videos you didn't like, Maybe even saying what you say in the Blog, but in a Video.

But consider that i wouldn't have heard of you or get inspired buy you i haven’t seen that Video.
Now that you got my attention, you can further inspire me in a more precise way, if you wish to be more understood.

I loved the way you talked in your Blog about Hypocrisy and how it is a part of your experience/..i feel the same way.
Maybe in life there is always tension between two "impulses":
The one, to survive (witch sometimes can lead us to hypocrisy and other un-holy behaviors), and the other impulse- to be fully alive (witch includes being true to ourselves and others).

I wanted to ask you if you ever wrote about the subject of friendship and making friends. I find it a confusing subject in my life, as i want people to really like me for who i really am, but there are aspects in my personality witch i tend to hide, because i think people won't like them.
For example, sometimes i get moody and quite sad, and i feel that people don't like me when I’m like that, they prefer my happy and energetic side.

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts about that, if you have any.

All the best
Lilach (38 woman, Israel)

Nobody said...

I have discovered your video in you tube and we did the same actions on the streets in Frankfurt. You, both are a great inspitratzion for our movement. (zeitgeist movement). Is very sad to see that you are preaching peace and unity and you both have"diffrerences". Despite of all things, dont forget, your video became famous, your videos are inspiring people, your videos are an example for their activist groups/movements. Don't spoil it guys...it is very sad and dissapointing to read what you just wrote..to hear what is in your heart..very sad

Xandrani said...

If every inspirational person in history waited for the perfect 'home life', then no positive movements would have ever happened.

Why not work on your home life, work life and activist life all at once. Live in the present moment and do all of them with love.

Don't deny something just because one area of life is not perfect.

karrie kay said...

firstly and most important. i love you danny SHINE. maybe not complete ly (because in truth who actually has that skill?) but i feel towards you this feeling that we as humans have gave a symbol to. the symbol is the word love and due to my ignorance silly symbols is what i have to use...

i have just started getting into this danny shine and charlie veitch stuff but becasue i have some sort of experience with humans i would like to share a bit.

id like to describe an experience that might be like you and charlie. i met a woman around the same age as me. she has blonde hair i have brown, hers is straight mine is curly. she has green eyes and i have blue. shes a pill head i smoke pot very moderately. shes a nympho i am sexualy arroused when emotions are stirred. shes had sex with countless men i have had sex with 7 in 6 years. she lies daily and feels nothing from it and i find myself to be pretty honest (like love who can truely be honest?) but we found one another on the surface of this earth in the same place at the same time. so we smoked a bowl (and got into a similair mindset?). we sat indian style facing one another on a sofa with our knees touching and eyes locked. i talked. she talked. we talked at the same time. fast and excited and insistent and relaxed. after our high we got together and decided to try and figure out what the experience was. we decided to describe it as sex. during sex there is a fourplay (starting up a hill) then there is an orgasim (if you get it right that is)(the peak) then there is the cuddling, the cool down (down the hill). we decided this was a great way to explain what happened to us. we mind fucked one another, in a beautiful way. two opposites had come together at the same time in the same palce to experience one another and something beautiful came from it. we no longer speak to one another. everything i am for she is against everything i am she is not. it would be nearly impossible to enjoy time together.
so with that being said perhaps this is like you and charlie. i watch him and you and just your tones alone are different. he seems urgent and asks people to gather round and his eyes get big and hes thrilled when the police come around and he yells and he calls people cunts and he wears a red hat with a skull with some sort of devil horns. then there is you, rather mellow with a smile very casual clothes begging people to not idle you. opposites? to me it appears so. yall came together for soemthing beautiful and now you split. for him to continue doing his work and you to continue doing yours. same with me and the girl i met. i wanted to change her, to show her my world, my side of things. but it cnat be like that. thats not what she is on earth to experience. beautiful? i surely think so :-)

much much "love"
karrie kay
kayk1988@aol.com

notswift said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
notswift said...

Big Fan of the 'Everything Is Okay' concept as I perceive it in my own consciousness.

Danny, you have a stand-alone talent that did not, nor does not need a partnership with other agendas.

Educating the masses of the motive of profit and power as the driving force behind the marketing maneuvers which massage the consumer's minds is important work.

And, not everybody is going to get it. But, those that do may have an improved pre-final-decision life experience equipped with said knowledge.

Actually, few will get it.

Everything Is Okay.

Danny, you are blessed with a talent for a reason. It is okay if you want to bury it in the sand and return it to whom you received it from come your final-decision, but, why?

Shouldn't life be lived as if a once in a lifetime experience?

My monetary resources are few, but, I am willing and able to become part of your support team with whatever talents I have been given.

Jef Crew - notswift
WonWay.biz

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